RT list: Re: A horse says neigh

From: <Jlsperanza@aol.com>
Date: Mon Jul 13 2009 - 22:15:57 BST

-- says Wade in Science (vol. 209), p. 1349ff -- echoing the well-known
Italian nursery rhyme.

"Solomon would talk to a butterfly
as a man would talk to man"
KIPLING

-- the question is whether the butterfly felt under the pressure of
Grice's Co-Operative [sic] Principle.

-- if a lion could talk we could not understand him.

Ditto, and this triggered my curiosity, if a bobby could.

Grice recounts he hears this bobby -- back in Holborne, 1921.

GRICE'S MOTHER. Mabel.
You should listen to what Mr. Policeman
has said, Paul!
GRICE. Why?
MABEL. Well, it's true. The policeman's statement
is true.
GRICE. Why?
MABEL. Well policemen always speak the truth.
GRICE. All?
MABEL. Well, let's say THAT policeman always says
the truth.

"Later, I found out that what the policeman had said was, "Monkeys can
talk". This infuriated me so that I didn't speak to my mother for one hour."

--- (adapted from WoW, iii).

Wade writes:

"A group of several hundred people, psychologists, linguists, and a
handful of magicians ..."

all under the sponsorship of CSNM (just teasing)

"met at the Roosevelt Hotel in Manhattan to honour a horse."

"Wilhelm Von Osten's horse, Clever Hans."

His owes his 'celebrity to his master's innocence. Von Osten sincerely
believed
he had taught Hans to solve arithmetical problems."

The conference, organised by the New York Academy of Sciences ... had
featured speakers including experts on the training of circus animals."

"The Gardners -- who own Washoe -- accepted an invitation to speak only to
withdraw it at the last moment."

"Chimpsky was raised with the use of diapers, high chairs and so forth,
'pretty much like any other middle-class chimpanzee', Terrace writes."

Terrace was, after all, just Clever-Hansing Nim!

"Terrace's Science article started a polemic which has made the War of
the Roses look like a teddy-bears' picnic by comparison."

"Clever Hans, " Heini Hediger of the Uni of Zuerich explains, "had many
imitators, cats and dogs as well as horses."

For one, a horse, even if he could talk, could not work. Ditto a monkey.

"Paradoxically," Hediger said, "in zoos as well as in labatories [or
stables. JLS], homo sapiens still is the servant."

(Rumbaugh objected, "_My_ monkeys will at least put the trash in the trash
 can.")

--- Paul Buissac expanded on "The Kiss of Death" (bear-girl trick). "In
contrast to the human observer's lurid interpretation at the circus, the
'thoughts' of the bear are quite simple: he is retrieving a carrot which he
'KNOWS' the girl has hidden in her mouth."

"Dolphins are a different animal. Thee exists no punitive method for
training dolphins. It's an animal whose behaviour can be influenced only in
positive ways."

Pryor notes: "As a proof, let it be said that all dolphin trainers have
beautifully behaved children."

---
"Gorilla Koko is reported to have DESCRIBED
a  zebra as a 'white tiger'"
"Washoe is said to have DESIGNATED a  watermelon
as a 'drink fruit' and a swan as a 'water bird.'"
"Zuzanne  Chevalier-Skolnikov descrbed to the conference 
an occasion on which she  watched Koko persistently
MISPERFORM an action demanded on her. Finally  her
teacher, Penny Patterson, signed to her in exasperation,
'Bad  gorilla'. To which Koko responded with the signs
for 'Funny gorilla,' and  laughed."
"Surely we have a case of motherese here.  Mothers
notoriously overinterpret their children's uttearnces
and Koko's  protesting that she's not bad 
but funny (in Patterson's viewing) is no  different."
"Even a chimp could see that the Sebeoks are wrong", said  Sebeok.
"It's as if researchers are acting in the most
rudimentary  circus like performances", said Sebeok.
"More tail-tweaking followed:  principal investigators
require success in order to obtain continued  financial
support and career advancement."
---
"The  experiments," Sebeok explained, "divide into
three groups: 1. outright fraud,  2. self-deception,
and 3. those conducted by Terrace."
"A chimpanzee  who asked not to be quoted
by name told _Science_ that among his 
species  it is regarded as childish to make
general accusations without supplying  adequate
specific evidence."
"'Those who live in the academic  jungle
should NOT ape the law of the jungle', he said."
"Clever Hans  had a French imitator called
Clever Bertrand. Clever Bertrand could  do
everything that Clever Hands could do.
There was only one difference:  Clever
Bertrand was blind."
----
Cfr. Grice on meaning in  animals:
googlebooks, Reply to Richards:
(rather circularly,  admittedly, on view of 'floral dictiveness -- and the 
language of flowers in  general -- why is it that flowers are so talkative 
in Lewis  Carroll):
"I think I _would_ have good  prospects
of winning the day..."
--- the day after  yesterday?
"but unfortunately a victory on  this
front would not be enough. For, in a  
succession of increasingly  elaborate
moves designed to thwart a  sequence
of Schifferian counterexamples"
--- so  magisterially repeated by Avramides, formerly of Somerville in her 
MIT Grice  book.
"I have been LED to RESTRICT  the
intentions which are to  CONSTITUTE
utterrer's meaning to M-intentions;  and
whatever might be the case in  general
with regard to intending,  M-intending
is  plainly
TOO SOPHISTICATED A  STATE
to be found in a language-destitute  creature.
So the unavoidable rearguard actions seem  to
have undermined the raison-d'etre of the  campain."
(Grice, p. 85). 
1522 G. DOUGLAS tr. Virgil Æneid (1960) XI. x. 24 
 
 
He sprentis furth, and full provd walxis he, Heich strekand vp his hed with 
 mony a ne. 
 
1583 B. MELBANCKE Philotimus 35 
 
The rude Sythian had rather hear you neigh of a horse, than Orpheus his  
harp. 
 
1616 SHAKESPEARE Antony & Cleopatra (1623) III. vi. 45 
 
The neighs of Horse to TELL of her approach. 
 
 
1716 A. HILL Fatal Vision The Neigh of Horses, Usher'd the Battle on.
 
 
1781 W. COWPER Charity 177 Responsive to the distant neigh, he neighs. 
 
1879 J. BEERBOHM Wanderings in Patagonia v. 65 
 
At our approach he gave a faint neigh of satisfaction. 
 
1926 Amer. Mercury Apr. 461/1 Then he let out a neigh that was a regular  
ripper. 
 
1959 J. PREBBLE Buffalo Soldiers 33 
 
The neigh of a cavalry mount was answered by a nicker from the Indian  
ponies. 
 
1983 ‘R. WEST’ This Real Night (1984) I. iii. 102 Then the horses gave  
exasperated neighs, saying it was all a fuss.
 
 
 OE ÆLFRIC Gram. (St. John's Oxf.) 129 Equus hinnit hors hnæg [OE  Julius 
næg]. 
 
OE ÆLFRIC Gram. (St. John's Oxf.) 192 Hinnio ic hnæge. 
 
1325 (c1300) Chron. Robert of Gloucester (Calig. A. 11) 9417 e hors neyde  
& lepte at it was great fear. 
 
1387 J. TREVISA tr. R. Higden Polychron. (St. John's Cambr.) III. 403 
 
Bucefal e hors..neyhede as it were e roaring of lions. 
 
1400 (?a1300) King Alexander (Laud 622) 1871 
 
Many shelde..was shynende..Many stede loude nayende. 
 
1425 (c1400) Laud Troy-bk. 7717 As it were a horse..he [sc. the centaur]  
neyed. 
 
    -- silly, as he had the right phonic apparatus not to  (JLS).
 
 1595 G. SABIE Fissher-mans Tale, Suddenly our palfrey neighed out. 
 
1616 SHAKESPEARE Julius Caesar (1623) II. ii. 23  Horses do neigh, and  
dying men did groan. 
 
1697 DRYDEN tr. Virgil Æneis XI, in tr. Virgil Wks. 560 He neighs, he  
snorts, he bears his Head on high. 
 
1735 W. SOMERVILLE Chace II. 92 My Courser hears their Voice,..neighing he  
paws the ground. 
 
1765 S. FOOTE Commissary II. i. 38 The impassable bogs, that the languid,  
but generous, steed travelled through; he now pricks up his ears, he neighs, 
he  canters, he capers through a whole region of turnpegs. 
 
1819 SCOTT Ivanhoe I. xii. 242 Their generous steeds, which, by neighing  
and pawing the ground, gave signal of their impatience. 
 
     [A horse may not say neigh or look at the [Dutch]  Queen -- but he may 
_mean-n_. JLS]
 
 
1839 C. DARWIN in R. Fitzroy & C. Darwin Narr. Surv. Voy. H.M.S.  Adventure 
& Beagle III. ix. 196, 
 
I have..seen a guanaco,..not only neigh and squeal, but prance and leap  
about. 
 
1865 F. MAX MÜLLER Chips (1880) I. vi. 130 The horse of Darius neighed  
first. 
 
    -- but it's who neighs last that neighs best (JLS). And  that was Hans? 
As the reviewer notes, 'the experiment was never repeated'. 
 
1964 D. FRANCIS Nerve xvii. 217 Buttonhook [sc. a horse] was..neighing  
purringly in her throat when we opened her door. 
 
 c1330 (?c1300) Guy of Warwick (Auch.) 1336 e stedes nyen and togider  
whine. 
 
a1425 Mandeville's Trav. (Egerton) (1889) 149 e meres herez aire foolez  
nye. 
 
1470 MALORY Morte Darthur (Winch. Coll.) 256 
 
They heard a great horse grimly neigh. 
 
1570 P. LEVENS Manipulus Vocabulorum sig. Hivv/2, To Nie as an horse. 
 
1628 J. CARMICHAEL Proverbs (1957) No. 1051, Litle may the auld horse, gif  
he may not nie.
1475 Catholicon Anglicum (BL Add. 15562) f. 84v, To Nee als A horse dose,  
hynnire. 
 
1522 G. DOUGLAS tr. Virgil Æneid (1960) XI. xvii. 94 The dynnyng of thar  
hors feit eik hard he,..and thar stedis ne. 
 
1550 Complaynt Scotl. (1979) vi. 30 Baytht horse & meyris did fast nee,  & 
the folis nechyr.
"In extended use (chiefly of a person): to make a sound resembling or  
suggestive of a horse's neigh. Freq. (esp. in early use) with reference to  
expressions of sexual desire."
 
1382 Bible (Wycliffite, E.V.) (Douce 369(1)) (1850) Isa. x. 30 
 
Neigh with thy voice, thou doter of Galyn. 
 
1382 Bible (Wycliffite, E.V.) (Bodl. 959) (1969) Jer. v. 8 
 
Each to the wife of his NEIGHbour neighed. 
 
1530 J. PALSGRAVE Lesclarcissement 664/1 
 
Thou neighest for an other otes, wiche we expresse by..‘thou lokest after  
deed mens shoes’,..
is an adage in the French tongue. 
 
         [Is it, Dan? JLS.  :)]
 
1567 W. PAINTER Palace of Pleasure II. xxii. f. 159v, 
 
She wold not giue ouer hir louer, which neyed after none other prouender. 
 
1625 J. FLETCHER Wit without Money (1639) IV. sig. F3, 
 
The he your wisdom plaid withall,..neyed at his nakednes, And made his cold 
 and poverty, your pastime. 
 
1671 R. HEAD & F. KIRKMAN Eng. Rogue IV. ix. sig. K2, 
 
He caper'd like a dancing Horse, and ney'd so lowd, that I could hardly  
forbear laughing. 
 
1781 W. COWPER Expostulation 39 
 
Adultery neighing at his neighbour's door. 
 
1849 H. MELVILLE Redburn lx. 374 
 
The steerage passengers almost neighed with delight, like horses brought  
back to spring pastures. 
 
1874 TROLLOPE Phineas Redux I. i. 6 
 
When..he received the following letter from his friend,..he neighed like  
the old warhorse. 
 
1925 E. SITWELL Troy Park 66 
 
Whinnying, neighed the maned blue wind. 
 
1952 H. WOUK Caine Mutiny I. iii. 25 
 
Keggs neighed in terror and let go of Willie's hand. 
 
1991 E. S. CONNELL Alchymist's Jrnl. (1992) 6 
 
Unctuous rakes honing after wonders that neigh toward other men's  wives.
"2. TRANSITIVE. Of a horse: to communicate (something) by neighing. Of a  
person: to utter, voice, or express with a sound resembling or suggestive of 
a  horse's neigh. Freq. with adverbs, esp. out. 
 
1624 P. MASSINGER Bond-man IV. ii. sig. H2, 
 
The noble horse..Neigh'd courage to his Rider. 
 
       -- "it says wonders".
 
1642 MILTON Apol. Smectymnuus in Wks. (1851) III. 292 
 
Who..could neigh out the remembrance of his old conversation among the  
Viraginian trollops. 
 
        -- you see. Grice again!
 
1644 E. DERING Disc. Proper Sacrifice sig. Ciij, 
 
Children neigh forth the descant. 
 
1727 POPE To Mr. Lemuel Gulliver i, 
 
Accept our humble lays, And let each grateful Houyhnhnm neigh thy praise. 
 
1789 C. SMITH Ethelinde (1814) IV. 146 D'ye think one might neigh out  
civilities to this female Nimrod? 
 
1876 W. MORRIS Sigurd III. 192 He neighs out hope of battle, for the heart  
of the beast is fain. 
 
1896 J. H. SKRINE in Speaker 25 July 98/2 The steed..neighed his trumpet. 
 
1909 G. MEREDITH Archduchess Anne I, in Poet. Wks. (1919) 258 
 
He neighed a laugh. 
 
1927 Amer. Mercury Nov. 343/2 Did some allegorical old-timer..neigh out a  
bitter ‘Hya, hya, hya, tell that to the marines!’
--- Cheers,
 
J. L. Speranza
   The Swimming-Pool Library
     Bordighera
 
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Received on Mon Jul 13 22:16:43 2009

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