Re: Initial 'And'

From: Ronnie Sim (ronnie_sim@sil.org)
Date: Sun Mar 16 2003 - 15:00:45 GMT

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    So is the AV/KJV of 1611 following an acceptable English usage when it meticulously 'translates' Herew clause-initial vav as 'And...' ??

    Wesley's hymn (see below) is 18th century.

    Ronnie

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: mjmurphy
      To: Ronnie Sim ; Jlsperanza ; relevance
      Cc: george_huttar
      Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 4:59 PM
      Subject: Re: Initial 'And'


      Initial "Ands" are very common in older English texts like Malory's "Morte D'arthur", where it often functions in the same manner as "Then", at least sometimes. In modern literature, especially in "fantasy" and such genres, it is often used as a means of conveying a "ye olde" sound to the writing. Hodgson's "The Dark Land", for example
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Ronnie Sim
        To: Jlsperanza ; relevance
        Cc: george_huttar
        Sent: March 15, 2003 8:16 AM
        Subject: Re: Initial 'And'


        And there is a very well-known Christian hymn which starts off
        "And can it be that I should gain ..... " It is Charles Wesley's -- read the rest for yourself. In spite of what many diverse authorities would say, initial and occurs!

        George needs to do some analysis, and propose an explanation of it. George, post your findings when your discoveries warrant it.

        Ronnie S

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jlsperanza@aol.com
          To: relevance@linguistics.ucl.ac.uk
          Cc: george_huttar@sil.org
          Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 4:04 PM
          Subject: Initial 'And'


          The Initial 'And' That Wasn't.

          Fw: query: discourse-initial 'and'

          From the LINGUIST List: Vol-14-687. Mon Mar 10 2003. ISSN: 1068-4875.
          Home Page: http://linguistlist.org/

          -- begin forwarded message.

          Date: 9 Mar 2003
          From: "George Huttar" <george_huttar@sil.org>
          Subject: query: discourse-initial 'and'

          Can anyone suggest bibliography treating discourse-initial use of
          'and', whether in poetry or in ordinary conversation? It appears to
          suggest a tie to something assumed to be knopwn by both speaker and
          hearer. Does this come under echoic utterances, or
          metarepresentation? Or...?

          Thanks. I'll post a summary if replies warrant it.

          George Huttar
          george_huttar@sil.org

          NEGST
          Box 24686
          00502 Karen
          Nairobi
          Kenya

          ---end forwarded message.

          Well, I hope it's something pragmatic, since "&p" is not even well-formed in logic, is it (So much for Strawson's _Introduction to Logical Theory_ and Grice's 'Logic and Conversation'). There is this famous song (refrain),

              "And when I told them
              How beautiful you were --
              they didn't believe me..."

          -- Vanessa Redgrave sings it in film _Agatha_ --. Of course, there is a _verse_ behind, which due to my musicological research I am hereby able to provide for the sake of relevance, and which goes:

              "Got the cutest little way
              Like to watch you all the day.
              And it certainly seems fine
              Just to think that you'll be mine.
              When I see your pretty smile
              Makes the living worth the while.
              So I've got to run around
              Telling people what I've found."
                  [singer bursts into refrain]
                        "AND when I told them..."

          -- learn more from this famous little song at http://www.musicals101.com/1910bway.htm.

          Cheers,

          JL
          J L Speranza



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