Re: RT list: Help needed

Dear Billy and dear all,

Thanks for your message - I thought of this too, initially but I still
don't see it this way. I mean, I would need an example :) to get it ... I
suppose.

I mean, if we go back to my example, once I utter It is raining and you hear
me and realise what I am saying, my communicative intention is fulfilled -
see below the definition.

So if you believe this or think it is probably true, than my informative
intention is also fulfilled. If you don't, it isn't.

I've realised something now.

Can an assumption be (mutually) manifest and not believe it? I think it
can - I mean, I know that people thought that the Earth was flat. That
people thought that the Earth was flat is an assumption that I know it is
true (I.e. people did think that). But then it can be broken down even
further and the assumption The earth is flat is again manifest to me but I
don't believe it. In this case because the I know that the reality is
different.

But in the past the assumption that the Earth was round was manifest to
some, and they did not believe it.

and also, the last part of the fragment I initially quoted does say that the
informative intention is fullfield if the audience believes it or considers
it probable.

In conclusion,

I think that the first part says that the communicative intention is
fulfilled, than you can have your informative intention mutually manifest
(it becomes mutually manifest to you and me that I intend to inform you
about the fact that it is raining) and then, if you come to believe me or
think that it it may rain than also the informative intention in fulfilled.

So it
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Billy Clark" <b.clark@mdx.ac.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:43 AM
To: "Anabella-Gloria Niculescu-Gorpin" <anabellaniculescu@hotmail.com>;
<relevance@linguistics.ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: RT list: Help needed

> Hi Annabella,
>
> I hope others will correct me if I've got it wrong, but I understand the
> main bit you quote here ("If the assumptions that she intends to make
> manifest to the audience become manifest, then she is successful") to be
> about the informative intention.
>
> I think the opening part ("By making her informative intention mutually
> manifest") indicates that this is about a situation where the
> communicative intention has succeeded, so that this is about whether or
> not an informative intention succeeds in a situation where a communicative
> intention has succeeded.
>
> Does that help?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Billy
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: owner-relevance@linguistics.ucl.ac.uk
> [owner-relevance@linguistics.ucl.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anabella-Gloria
> Niculescu-Gorpin [anabellaniculescu@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 27 August 2012 22:18
> To: relevance@linguistics.ucl.ac.uk
> Subject: RT list: Help needed
>
> Dear All,
>
> Any help on the matter below would be much appreciated.
>
> In Relevance, pag 62. Sperber & Wilson say:
>
>
> By making her informative intention mutually manifest, the communicator
> creates the following situation: it becomes mutually manifest that the
> fulfilment of her informative intention is, so to speak, in the hands of
> the audience. If the assumptions that she intends to make manifest to the
> audience become manifest, then she is successful; if the audience refuses
> to accept these assumptions as true or probably true, then she has failed
> in her informative intention.
>
> I agree with the second part - if the audience refuses to accept these
> assumptions as true or probably true, then she has failed in her
> informative intention.
>
> I have however tried during the last couple of hours to understand what it
> means "If the assumptions that she intends to make manifest to the
> audience become manifest, then she is successful" - Is she successful in
> communicating that she has a particular informative intention, or is the
> very informative intention successful?
>
> I tend to believe that my second explanation is correct - but I may be
> wrong so please help!
>
> Briefly my line of reasoning is this:
>
> Informative intention: I want you to believe that it is raining.
>
> My communicative intention is to make mutually manifest to you and me that
> I want you to believe that it is raining.
>
> I am telling you: It is raining.
>
> Now, the assumption that it is raining is mutually manifest for both of
> us.
> Communication is successful because the communicative intention is
> fulfilled.
>
> In my mind, at this point, we can speak about this 'If the assumptions
> that she intends to make manifest to the audience become manifest, then
> she is successful' - so she is successful in communicating, not in
> fulfilling her informative intention.
>
> But right in this moment, we don't know if you believe that it is raining
> or assume that it may be raining.
>
> If you do believe it or assume it, then my informative intention is also
> fulfilled. If not, I just communicated something to you, without
> fulfilling my informative intention.
>
> My question is - in the quotation above she is successful in what? in
> fulfilling her communicative intention?
>
> I hope I didn't lose everybody and that it has some meaning!
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Anabella
>
>
Received on Tue Aug 28 09:40:48 2012