RT and English

From: J L Speranza (jls@netverk.com.ar)
Date: Sat Sep 01 2001 - 16:55:22 GMT

  • Next message: Robert Stephenson: "The form of thoughts"

    Online now, and getting ready to go offlist for the weekend...

    Was: Re: RT, efficiency in communication, and the expression of a
    superlative concept.

    Hey, I guess I was being too sincere in displaying on list the nice insult
    I got offlist but then, as I always say, it is a pleasure to be insulted by
    an RTheorist... (and of such calliber too).

    He or she may find my comments on English ridiculous, but then English is
    not my language, or isn't it -- and I was ever willing to share --
    sometimes you get the nicest feedback/insult by the most irrelevant
    comment. English is my object-language. In replying to Fantin I was merely
    attempting to turn the issue from a Graeco-Roman/Semitic perspective, such
    as his, into one of Germanic/English relevance.
    More on ps.

    I found out that the problem Fantin found for Romans was echoed by one
    found for Angles and Saxons. There are many words used by the English to
    refer to JESUS.

    The first is perhaps, "HIGHER" -- this is cognate with German "herr", & it
    occurs in OE in Maldon and the Old Testment, but no registers are found
    that the term was used for Jesus. I was referred to a book called THE
    CAROLINGEAN LORD, which is a discussion of the word "higher" in Old
    Germanic culture.

    Then comes, perhaps, "DRIGHTIN". This is _still_ an entry in the OED. It is
    OE for "dominus". It was used to refer to Jesus (at least in many instances
    of the OED, I see. For further refs. feel free to cc me offlist). Obviously
    the first usages, as with "Higher", were secular. So I guess a RELEVANT
    transference from secular to non-secular was taking place -- which is, as I
    understand, what interests Fantin.

    Then comes "LORD". Unfortunately, though this became relevant in
    post-Anglo-Saxon England, I found that the term "lord" (literally
    "Loaf-Guardian", as opposed to Loaf-Eater = servant) was not registered as
    having been used for JESUS before 1066. Of course, it's the relevant term
    today as when we refer to the Lord's Prayer, the Lord's Supper, etc.

    A further ref was given to me asper work of one Mary Ramsey, of Georgia
    Univ. She has dwelt, and on the celebrated Kalamazoo Conference, on the
    many ways to refer to JESUS in OE. And so has J. Cambpell, of Worcester,

    Finally, the entry for DOMINUS in the Lewis & Short -- available online --
    notes that the term was indeed used for EMPEROR but avoided by express will
    by TIBERIUS, inter alia. It was then transferred, in ECCLESIASTICAL LATIN,
    to Jesus, as per, eg. The Gospel acc. to St John, where Jesus is said to
    have said, "I am your Lord and Master".

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